Joined: Jul 2009 Gender: Male Posts: 9,821 Location: Valley Center/Escondido
Does the next election really matter? « Thread Started on Jun 16, 2012, 8:25am »
Can we control the debt even if Obama is run out of town on a rail? Is what we really need is drastic changes to our banking system and to eliminate the Federal Reserve? Would Romney do any better? We need some real leadership and courage to initiate the steps and changes to get us on solid footing.
Can we control the debt even if Obama is run out of town on a rail? Is what we really need is drastic changes to our banking system and to eliminate the Federal Reserve? Would Romney do any better? We need some real leadership and courage to initiate the steps and changes to get us on solid footing.
Can we control the debt even if Obama is run out of town on a rail? Is what we really need is drastic changes to our banking system and to eliminate the Federal Reserve? Would Romney do any better? We need some real leadership and courage to initiate the steps and changes to get us on solid footing.
As long as Grover Norquist has his hands around the private parts of Republican House members, nothing will ever get done.
Grover Norquist has a lot of power as far as tax issues are concerned. It would seem to me that he would be an asset in working toward getting our Banking system healthy and also making Social Security and Medicare less costly and on firmer ground. I don't see where he hs addressed these issues directly and fail to see how your comment holds any water in this discussion. The other side of the isle is where opposition to meaningful changes would more likely come from.
Re: Does the next election really matter? « Reply #3 on Jun 16, 2012, 10:34pm »
This system of government is broken. Until the pols put aside their personal agendas and decide that they have to do something for the country as a whole your vote won't change one thing. For the first time in fifty years I think I am going to decline to vote.
As long as Grover Norquist has his hands around the private parts of Republican House members, nothing will ever get done.
Grover Norquist has a lot of power as far as tax issues are concerned. It would seem to me that he would be an asset in working toward getting our Banking system healthy and also making Social Security and Medicare less costly and on firmer ground. I don't see where he hs addressed these issues directly and fail to see how your comment holds any water in this discussion. The other side of the isle is where opposition to meaningful changes would more likely come from.
Right. He has totally paralyzed govenment and you see a positive outcome...yeah, says a lot about how you perceive the operations of the govenment system.
Grover Norquist has a lot of power as far as tax issues are concerned. It would seem to me that he would be an asset in working toward getting our Banking system healthy and also making Social Security and Medicare less costly and on firmer ground. I don't see where he hs addressed these issues directly and fail to see how your comment holds any water in this discussion. The other side of the isle is where opposition to meaningful changes would more likely come from.
Right. He has totally paralyzed govenment and you see a positive outcome...yeah, says a lot about how you perceive the operations of the govenment system.
I just have to hold my sides and laugh at how different people see things. It is funny when it is perceived that one outspoken Conservative voice can be seen as this dire threat to those of you in the Scupper Lip Society (bottom feeders). If Grover Norquist is more powerful than the POTUS, it is time to change the President.
Right. He has totally paralyzed govenment and you see a positive outcome...yeah, says a lot about how you perceive the operations of the govenment system.
I just have to hold my sides and laugh at how different people see things. It is funny when it is perceived that one outspoken Conservative voice can be seen as this dire threat to those of you in the Scupper Lip Society (bottom feeders). If Grover Norquist is more powerful than the POTUS, it is time to change the President.
You are right about that - we do see things differently. Representative democracy (particularly the House) is supposed to be about electing people to represent our interests, not the interests of Grover! The fact that Republican House members have signed the pledge means they are beholden to him, not their constituents. Anyone signing the pleadge should be voted out of office for shafting the people who elected them.
As to what power that kind of evil can represent, you need look no further than the financial markets during the debt ceiling crisis. What is the POTUS supposed to do? Have GN arrested for high treason?
I just have to hold my sides and laugh at how different people see things. It is funny when it is perceived that one outspoken Conservative voice can be seen as this dire threat to those of you in the Scupper Lip Society (bottom feeders). If Grover Norquist is more powerful than the POTUS, it is time to change the President.
You are right about that - we do see things differently. Representative democracy (particularly the House) is supposed to be about electing people to represent our interests, not the interests of Grover! The fact that Republican House members have signed the pledge means they are beholden to him, not their constituents. Anyone signing the pleadge should be voted out of office for shafting the people who elected them.
As to what power that kind of evil can represent, you need look no further than the financial markets during the debt ceiling crisis. What is the POTUS supposed to do? Have GN arrested for high treason?
Just what part of Grovers pledge do you object to? What part was adhered to? Is Grover more powerful than Obama?
You are right about that - we do see things differently. Representative democracy (particularly the House) is supposed to be about electing people to represent our interests, not the interests of Grover! The fact that Republican House members have signed the pledge means they are beholden to him, not their constituents. Anyone signing the pleadge should be voted out of office for shafting the people who elected them.
As to what power that kind of evil can represent, you need look no further than the financial markets during the debt ceiling crisis. What is the POTUS supposed to do? Have GN arrested for high treason?
Just what part of Grovers pledge do you object to? What part was adhered to? Is Grover more powerful than Obama?
Huh? Are you really that stupid? The fact that the pledge obligates House Repubs to NEVER vote for a tax increaes, no matter what the state of the economy? IOWs, the nation's economical well-being could be at stake, but the pledge to never have a tax revenue increase comes first - that is what I might object to...are you mad? Do you really care about the state of this country's economy, or are you just too far right to care?
Just what part of Grovers pledge do you object to? What part was adhered to? Is Grover more powerful than Obama?
Huh? Are you really that stupid? The fact that the pledge obligates House Repubs to NEVER vote for a tax increaes, no matter what the state of the economy? IOWs, the nation's economical well-being could be at stake, but the pledge to never have a tax revenue increase comes first - that is what I might object to...are you mad? Do you really care about the state of this country's economy, or are you just too far right to care?
Although that is not entirely true, I see no problem with cutting spending and raising revenue the way Grover sees it. It is not about all taxes, just some. I think you should really read the text of the pledge before getting your skirt up over your head.
Huh? Are you really that stupid? The fact that the pledge obligates House Repubs to NEVER vote for a tax increaes, no matter what the state of the economy? IOWs, the nation's economical well-being could be at stake, but the pledge to never have a tax revenue increase comes first - that is what I might object to...are you mad? Do you really care about the state of this country's economy, or are you just too far right to care?
Although that is not entirely true, I see no problem with cutting spending and raising revenue the way Grover sees it. It is not about all taxes, just some. I think you should really read the text of the pledge before getting your skirt up over your head.
"ONE, oppose any and all efforts to increase the marginal income tax rates for individuals and/or businesses; and TWO, oppose any net reduction or elimination of deductions and credits, unless matched dollar for dollar by further reducing tax rates."
There. Convinced I've read it?
IOW, no returing to the pre-Bush tax cuts for the rich. No elimination of special tax breaks for the rich unless you can figure out another way to reward them.
GN has his own personal pledge - see to it that any Republican not falling into line gets the ax. There's nothing Obama can do about GN - he's YOUR problem.
Although that is not entirely true, I see no problem with cutting spending and raising revenue the way Grover sees it. It is not about all taxes, just some. I think you should really read the text of the pledge before getting your skirt up over your head.
"ONE, oppose any and all efforts to increase the marginal income tax rates for individuals and/or businesses; and TWO, oppose any net reduction or elimination of deductions and credits, unless matched dollar for dollar by further reducing tax rates."
There. Convinced I've read it?
IOW, no returing to the pre-Bush tax cuts for the rich. No elimination of special tax breaks for the rich unless you can figure out another way to reward them.
GN has his own personal pledge - see to it that any Republican not falling into line gets the ax. There's nothing Obama can do about GN - he's YOUR problem.
Now that is a little different. It is income tax, not all taxes. I agree with Grover and so should you. We can get rid of hundreds of non working programs starting with the Dept of Education and including the Dept of Energy.
"ONE, oppose any and all efforts to increase the marginal income tax rates for individuals and/or businesses; and TWO, oppose any net reduction or elimination of deductions and credits, unless matched dollar for dollar by further reducing tax rates."
There. Convinced I've read it?
IOW, no returing to the pre-Bush tax cuts for the rich. No elimination of special tax breaks for the rich unless you can figure out another way to reward them.
GN has his own personal pledge - see to it that any Republican not falling into line gets the ax. There's nothing Obama can do about GN - he's YOUR problem.
Now that is a little different. It is income tax, not all taxes. I agree with Grover and so should you. We can get rid of hundreds of non working programs starting with the Dept of Education and including the Dept of Energy.
There is fundamental difference in how you and I view the functioning of government. Representative democracy was designed to be a give and take system so that the overall public good would be enhanced through our elected representatives. It was not intended to give people like GN a hammer to weild over the heads of those reps. The hammer was supposed to be held by constituents. If you don't understand that, there's no more debate to be had between us. I believe in representative democracy and you believe in having people like GN having undue and undeserved influence on the system. It's just another example of governance by special interest and I oppose it.
Now that is a little different. It is income tax, not all taxes. I agree with Grover and so should you. We can get rid of hundreds of non working programs starting with the Dept of Education and including the Dept of Energy.
There is fundamental difference in how you and I view the functioning of government. Representative democracy was designed to be a give and take system so that the overall public good would be enhanced through our elected representatives. It was not intended to give people like GN a hammer to weild over the heads of those reps. The hammer was supposed to be held by constituents. If you don't understand that, there's no more debate to be had between us. I believe in representative democracy and you believe in having people like GN having undue and undeserved influence on the system. It's just another example of governance by special interest and I oppose it.
Are you implying that Democratics aren't beholden to special interests?
Now that is a little different. It is income tax, not all taxes. I agree with Grover and so should you. We can get rid of hundreds of non working programs starting with the Dept of Education and including the Dept of Energy.
There is fundamental difference in how you and I view the functioning of government. Representative democracy was designed to be a give and take system so that the overall public good would be enhanced through our elected representatives. It was not intended to give people like GN a hammer to weild over the heads of those reps. The hammer was supposed to be held by constituents. If you don't understand that, there's no more debate to be had between us. I believe in representative democracy and you believe in having people like GN having undue and undeserved influence on the system. It's just another example of governance by special interest and I oppose it.
This is a Republic.
So you are happy the national debt went from $9 trillion to $16 trillion in three and a half years? So to you, George Soros is okay with his influence. And who the hcal is Norquish? I think it is just too late to obfuscate George Soros' peddling deals and controling the democRats with a childish "oh the GrOPe does it too" whining baby crap. The real issue is the debt and NO JOBS.
There is fundamental difference in how you and I view the functioning of government. Representative democracy was designed to be a give and take system so that the overall public good would be enhanced through our elected representatives. It was not intended to give people like GN a hammer to weild over the heads of those reps. The hammer was supposed to be held by constituents. If you don't understand that, there's no more debate to be had between us. I believe in representative democracy and you believe in having people like GN having undue and undeserved influence on the system. It's just another example of governance by special interest and I oppose it.
Are you implying that Democratics aren't beholden to special interests?
There is fundamental difference in how you and I view the functioning of government. Representative democracy was designed to be a give and take system so that the overall public good would be enhanced through our elected representatives. It was not intended to give people like GN a hammer to weild over the heads of those reps. The hammer was supposed to be held by constituents. If you don't understand that, there's no more debate to be had between us. I believe in representative democracy and you believe in having people like GN having undue and undeserved influence on the system. It's just another example of governance by special interest and I oppose it.
This is a Republic.
So you are happy the national debt went from $9 trillion to $16 trillion in three and a half years? So to you, George Soros is okay with his influence. And who the hcal is Norquish? I think it is just too late to obfuscate George Soros' peddling deals and controling the democRats with a childish "oh the GrOPe does it too" whining baby crap. The real issue is the debt and NO JOBS.
HAM
No , I'm not happy with the national debt. I recognize it is special interests from both sides that have created our debt problems, not the least of which was GWB paying for two wars outside the budget process, which is responsible for upwards of $2 trillion of our current debt. Are you happy with that?
The difference between Soros and Norquist is fundamental. One (Soros) is an influence peddler; the other (Norquist) is an extortist.
We need more jobs. How about supporting a jobs bill?
So you are happy the national debt went from $9 trillion to $16 trillion in three and a half years? So to you, George Soros is okay with his influence. And who the hcal is Norquish? I think it is just too late to obfuscate George Soros' peddling deals and controling the democRats with a childish "oh the GrOPe does it too" whining baby crap. The real issue is the debt and NO JOBS.
HAM
No , I'm not happy with the national debt. I recognize it is special interests from both sides that have created our debt problems, not the least of which was GWB paying for two wars outside the budget process, which is responsible for upwards of $2 trillion of our current debt. Are you happy with that?
The difference between Soros and Norquist is fundamental. One (Soros) is an influence peddler; the other (Norquist) is an extortist.
We need more jobs. How about supporting a jobs bill?
Whoops...I mislabeled Norquist - he's an extortionist.
Joined: Jul 2009 Gender: Male Posts: 9,821 Location: Valley Center/Escondido
Re: Does the next election really matter? « Reply #18 on Jun 19, 2012, 3:35pm »
We are getting a little silly here. Let's go back and examine where Grover gets his leverage. He is just a conduit from people who share his views. He would have no power or even be recognized if his backing was not real and formidable.
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