Check the posts and I think you will find at least a few that display pretty limp support for Rocky Long at best. The reality is that Rocky worked a certifiable miracle in Albuquerque to be able to get the Lobos into any bowl game at all.
I find this amibivalence, or worse, regarding Rocky Long's ability to coach a football team to be rather amusing. When we were losing to the Lobos year after year, I don't recall any Aztec fans saying how poor a HC Rocky was.
AzWm
everyone beat us, that's how you end up 39-80 in a decade
Haven't won a meaningful non-conference game in 15 years
We've won 17 games the last 2 years and haven't beaten a bowl eligible team that doen't run the option (Airforcex2, Navy)
We have the 8th easiest schedule in the country next year and 7 home games and we as a fan base have been repeatedly prepared by the staff that we're taking a step back.
I think limp support is what this situation calls for. SDSU is teetering and is going to face a step-up in competition the following year.
AztecPanther Erik Administrator Moderator & Part Time Admin member is offline
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Re: No Raise for Rocky Long? « Reply #24 on Apr 15, 2012, 10:13am »
Ummmm....
Rocky's under contract. He will get paid what the contract states he will get paid. Nothing more, nothing less.
The ONLY reason why Hoke was suddenly in line for a, "Raise," was because he was entertaining offers to leave. Otherwise he wouldn't have been offered a raise, either. Rocky isn't leaving, so the terms of the contract are still being honored by both sides (as is the case most of the time in college football).
Rocky's under contract. He will get paid what the contract states he will get paid. Nothing more, nothing less.
The ONLY reason why Hoke was suddenly in line for a, "Raise," was because he was entertaining offers to leave. Otherwise he wouldn't have been offered a raise, either. Rocky isn't leaving, so the terms of the contract are still being honored by both sides (as is the case most of the time in college football).
If there's anything we've learned in the past several years watching SDSU, it's that ALL contracts are breakable...by either party. Long, Hoke, other coaches, the MWC, BE, our AD...and on and on. And my point was that if boosters and/or the administration were 1) afraid another school wanted to go after Rocky AND 2) they were eager to prevent that, then they would have discussed or reached for salary enhancement. Or at least increased his termination buyout. They did not do that.
« Last Edit: Apr 15, 2012, 11:47am by myownwords »
Rocky's under contract. He will get paid what the contract states he will get paid. Nothing more, nothing less.
The ONLY reason why Hoke was suddenly in line for a, "Raise," was because he was entertaining offers to leave. Otherwise he wouldn't have been offered a raise, either. Rocky isn't leaving, so the terms of the contract are still being honored by both sides (as is the case most of the time in college football).
If there's anything we've learned in the past several years watching SDSU, it's that ALL contracts are breakable...by either party. Long, Hoke, other coaches, the MWC, BE, our AD...and on and on. And my point was that if boosters and/or the administration were 1) afraid another school wanted to go after Rocky AND 2) they were eager to prevent that, then they would have discussed or reached for salary enhancement. Or at least increased his termination buyout. They did not do that.
Why would they? Rocky has publicly stated that he has no interest in leaving SDSU, and his actions completely back that up. The school is happy with his first year performance as he took the Aztecs to a winning season and a Bowl game.
Neither party is interested in breaking or altering the contract. Both sides are happy to continue to honor the contract.
Nothing is certain but the fact that things change. We must adapt to college sports new economics.
Joined: May 2010 Gender: Male Posts: 1,174 Location: South Mission Beach
Re: No Raise for Rocky Long? « Reply #27 on Apr 15, 2012, 12:20pm »
This is what I love about the internet. It gives us something to do during the off season. Someone can take a total non-issue like a coach who got a $50,000.00 bonus in the first year of his five year contract that didn't also get his contract torn up and rewritten with a higher level of compensation into two pages of chat. It isn't even an issue, and here we are analyzing, taking sides, getting all excited.
Re: No Raise for Rocky Long? « Reply #28 on Apr 15, 2012, 12:57pm »
Could you imagine if every coach that made a bowl was given a raise? 70 of 119 coaches would get a raise ever year - this is beyond stupid.
Rocky already benefited from our recent sucess - Hoke's first year contract was 675 - Rocky's was 800. Hoke was due for a raise that would have given him potential to reach 1M, not sure what the base would have been, probably not much different that what Rocky gets now.
With some of the posts/threads in mind, does it seem telling to anyone else that Rocky was NOT offered (or was he?) a raise after a bowl season. And since then we've gone on the cheap, with an even smaller payroll. Hoke was in line for a huge raise after his bowl season. And even if Michigan had not been lurking, I still think he'd have gotten a big boost. Does this signal the administration's intentions about Rocky's future? Or just SDSU going back to the "good old days" of "cruise and lose"?
Why don't you change your name to "Fire Rocky Now" ?
How selfish soever man may be supposed, there are evidently some principles in his nature which interest him in the fortune of others, and render their happiness necessary to him, though he derives nothing from it except the pleasure of seeing it. Adam Smith
This is what I love about the internet. It gives us something to do during the off season. Someone can take a total non-issue like a coach who got a $50,000.00 bonus in the first year of his five year contract that didn't also get his contract torn up and rewritten with a higher level of compensation into two pages of chat. It isn't even an issue, and here we are analyzing, taking sides, getting all excited.
This is like a bar room, but without the beer.
The Fred Noonan School of Navigation.
Agreed - Outstanding navigation once again! - Maybe someone someone should start another of those amusing "Rocky is a lousy coach because he keeps his arms crossed too much!" threads....
Not yet. I know that Rocky is at the very least a competent coach, which already puts him in the 95th percentile of all SDSU HC's.
LMAO.
At this point in time, I would place Rocky where Tollner was after a few years at SDSU. That is to say, he's shown he can beat the occasional second division Pac opponent and win eight games by beating most of the intraconference opponents we play who because of their constraints aren't able to match up in recruiting. However, at the risk of invoking the name of the Devil, this new post-Hades regime doesn't yet have a single "program defining" victory in three years. We came close twice in 2010 with very close losses at Missouri and TCU but we had no such close call in 2011.
If this was 1976-1981 when I attended SDSU, we would all be quite unimpressed with the last three years. At that time, winning every conference game except BYU was expected. And we didn't just play the occasional Florida State close, we beat them. Sometimes we beat them up.
Rocky deserves major props for having kept every one of Brady Hoke's recruits in the fold last year. He also deserves props for the fact that recruiting didn't fall off this year, although the fact we're moving up to the BE undoubtedly helped. I like the guy OK but right now, I'd give him about a C+. That kind of grade doesn't warrant a raise.
Not yet. I know that Rocky is at the very least a competent coach, which already puts him in the 95th percentile of all SDSU HC's.
LMAO.
At this point in time, I would place Rocky where Tollner was after a few years at SDSU. That is to say, he's shown he can beat the occasional second division Pac opponent and win eight games by beating most of the intraconference opponents we play who because of their constraints aren't able to match up in recruiting. However, at the risk of invoking the name of the Devil, this new post-Hades regime doesn't yet have a single "program defining" victory in three years. We came close twice in 2010 with very close losses at Missouri and TCU but we had no such close call in 2011.
If this was 1976-1981 when I attended SDSU, we would all be quite unimpressed with the last three years. At that time, winning every conference game except BYU was expected. And we didn't just play the occasional Florida State close, we beat them. Sometimes we beat them up.
Rocky deserves major props for having kept every one of Brady Hoke's recruits in the fold last year. He also deserves props for the fact that recruiting didn't fall off this year, although the fact we're moving up to the BE undoubtedly helped. I like the guy OK but right now, I'd give him about a C+. That kind of grade doesn't warrant a raise.
Exactly my point, SFG, but you said it better. Though my sarcasm was not appreciated by some, I do not think he should be fired or given a raise. My concern is that no one is worried about him leaving. And THAT does worry me. We're in that "comfort zone" and that's not necessarily a good thing in view of our payroll going down and the coaching choices.
Re: No Raise for Rocky Long? « Reply #33 on Apr 15, 2012, 3:52pm »
Rocky isn't going to leave SDSU. No better example of why than when I hear the announcers on Rivals Radio discuss the best coaches in various conferences, Rocky's name never comes up with regard to the MWC. It's always Gary Patterson, Chris Petersen and Troy Calhoun. That's it. Because Dave Christensen is considerably younger than Rocky and has done a pretty good job under the circumstances at Wyoming, I think if he had a breakout season of 10 wins that Christensen might be considered for lousy B1G or B12 job like maybe Baylor if Briles leaves or Indiana if Kevin Wilson is canned but that's about it.
Check the posts and I think you will find at least a few that display pretty limp support for Rocky Long at best.
When Rocky's enthusiasm level becomes a little less "limp," you might find that the level of support does the same.
What about Jim Tressel? I've seen him on the sideline a number of times and he always looked like a small town librarian out for a breath of fresh air. No enthusiasm that I could see. It's about wining, not going ballistic on the sideline.
As for our program not winning a big game, we absolutely were robbed blind at Mizzou three years ago. At least as bad as the 2004 phantom fumble in the NMU game. Had at least one of the officials not been looking the other way, the complaint about never having beaten a name opponent in a non-conference game would not come up.
Sure, the program has not come close to reaching the level at which "big wins" in non-conference games happen often. Maybe we will never reach that level. We might if we could afford to hire a Mike Leach or an Urban Meyer, but you know how unlikely that is. With that fact clearly understood, perhaps we can all agree that Rocky Long is probably as good a hire as SDSU can expect to make at this point in history.
What about Jim Tressel? I've seen him on the sideline a number of times and he always looked like a small town librarian out for a breath of fresh air. No enthusiasm that I could see. It's about wining, not going ballistic on the sideline.
I'm not talking about his sideline demeanor. I'm talking about the words he uses. He always seems to be trying to lower our expectations.
People will say, "Well Lou Holtz did that too." Yeah. He did that. The difference is that he was almost always wrong and he knew it.
When Rocky says we're not gonna be as good this year, I don't get the sense that it's just coachspeak.
He's right we won't be. He's honest too, we won't be. The "casaul" fan, as Rocky refers to them, ( and there are always some on this board) , thinks everything is just the same because the coaching staff is back. We simply do not have experience at many positions, DE,DT, Safety, OL, RB. This will indeed be a rebuilding year, especially on defense. Lots of good recruits come aboard in August and there will be lots of good RsF gettting some playing time. Despite what some think is an easy schdeule we will look young and makes lots of mistakes this year. That's just the way it is but, 2013 promises to be better.
"America loves a winner and will not tolerate a loser" - George Patton
Joined: Jul 2009 Gender: Male Posts: 5,181 Location: Fallbrook, CA
Re: No Raise for Rocky Long? « Reply #36 on Apr 15, 2012, 8:36pm »
Coaches are supposed to lower exceptions. Well, they should do that to some extent if they are smart. The coach who says "We're loaded; Top-10 for sure" and then leads his team to a 7-6 record capped by an ugly bowl loss is going to have major egg on his face.
If, instead, he says, "We've got some great young kids coming in, but please understand that it's going to take a while for them to learn to play at this level" is in much better shape. If his team finished 10-3 with a nice bowl win, no one will remember that he sounded gloomy in August. If he finishes 7-6, people will say, "Well, that's not bad considering how many youngsters he had to rely on."
I am reminded of a cartoon (think it was the LA times) from the mid 1950s. It showed Red Sanders (UCLA) and Jess Hill (USC) getting kicked out (literally!) from a meeting of the coaches association. As they flew out the door and headed for a hard landing on the sidewalk, both were quoted as saying roughly this: "Gee, I just said there was an outside chance that we might be decent this year!" The caption below said something like, "This is what happens when coaches suggest that their teams might actually win a couple of games in the coming season."
Somehow, fans now want coaches to take the first approach; "Hey we are going to be terrific this Fall!" Anything less exuberant and the fans say the coach is making excuses. I suppose they would have said the same thing had Miller Huggins or Joe McCarthy pointed out that, should Babe Ruth and Lou Gehrig be out simultaneously with injuries, the Yankees might not be quite as strong!
Coaches are supposed to lower exceptions. Well, they should do that to some extent if they are smart. The coach who says "We're loaded; Top-10 for sure" and then leads his team to a 7-6 record capped by an ugly bowl loss is going to have major egg on his face.
If, instead, he says, "We've got some great young kids coming in, but please understand that it's going to take a while for them to learn to play at this level" is in much better shape. If his team finished 10-3 with a nice bowl win, no one will remember that he sounded gloomy in August. If he finishes 7-6, people will say, "Well, that's not bad considering how many youngsters he had to rely on."
I am reminded of a cartoon (think it was the LA times) from the mid 1950s. It showed Red Sanders (UCLA) and Jess Hill (USC) getting kicked out (literally!) from a meeting of the coaches association. As they flew out the door and headed for a hard landing on the sidewalk, both were quoted as saying roughly this: "Gee, I just said there was an outside chance that we might be decent this year!" The caption below said something like, "This is what happens when coaches suggest that their teams might actually win a couple of games in the coming season."
Somehow, fans now want coaches to take the first approach; "Hey we are going to be terrific this Fall!" Anything less exuberant and the fans say the coach is making excuses. I suppose they would have said the same thing had Miller Huggins or Joe McCarthy pointed out that, should Babe Ruth and Lou Gehrig be out simultaneously with injuries, the Yankees might not be quite as strong!
AzWm
The point you---and others---seem to be avoiding is that we've been hearing the "mediocrity" tale for 4 years into a 5-year plan. If that's to be believed, HOW are we going to jump to the promised land with only 20% of the time remaining after this upcoming 4th year of average team play? And obviously we're no where near close to that hallowed ground.
Check the posts and I think you will find at least a few that display pretty limp support for Rocky Long at best. The reality is that Rocky worked a certifiable miracle in Albuquerque to be able to get the Lobos into any bowl game at all.
Despite what some think is an easy schdeule we will look young and makes lots of mistakes this year. That's just the way it is but, 2013 promises to be better.
I care a lot less about wins, losses, and coaches than I used to, BUT...
I and many others (maybe even you) been hearing these same words for going on thirty years. During exactly which decade are we finally gonna be plugging in juniors and seniors to replace departing players?
When do the Hoke/Long recruits start playing? If we're "young" four years in, then what has happened with the infrastructure of this program?
This is Year Four of a five-year rebuild. In other words, we're going on 80% of the way to the payoff. No one can tell me that we should expect a dropoff the year before the payoff year, especially against a DIAA schedule like this.
The Aztecs have a high number of juniors there should be no excuses next year, but I am sure we will hear some.
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